But the non-COVID business also, it is the one that I think did very well in last year. We had the 7% growth, and we gave a guidance of 8% to 10% growth for the non-COVID business going forward. So we are very, very optimistic that we will make this guidance, and that's why we reaffirmed it.

JULIE HYMAN: And you have been laying out this vision for a post-COVID Pfizer, right? The Seagen acquisition obviously a huge part of that and building out that cancer franchise. But it seems like there is a bit of a disconnect between the vision and the optimism that you're expressing and what we're seeing reflected in the stock price and what we're hearing from Wall Street. What do you think accounts for that? What do you think the Street is missing here?

ALBERT BOURLA: I don't think that the Street is missing something. I think the Street was disappointed because we missed our initial expectations on the COVID revenues, and then they were wondering what will happen with this cost base that was quite high. So it's just waiting to see how we are going to execute going forward, so it is a show-me story.

I think that we have a very, very good track record. You just mentioned that we beat the EPS consensus. You know, in the last five years, we had 20 earnings releases. In 18 of these 20 earnings, we beat the Bloomberg estimates in EPS. So it's not that we are a company that is used to miss their projections or the external expectations. So we are moving into this new year with a very high confidence that all these investments that we have done so to address the post-LOE gap that we were expecting between year '25 to '30 will return-- will give a very, very good return on investment. And

The flagship of this is, of course, the Seagen acquisition. That is going to position Pfizer as the leader in oncology.

JULIE HYMAN: You know, it's interesting when you talk about Seagen and the role that it's going to play. I was flagged to some commentary from JPMorgan today in reaction to the earnings, and one of the things they said is that the company does not have what they call a, quote, unquote, "clear anchor asset." Do you think Seagen is that clear anchor asset? And if it is, why isn't that message being received?

ALBERT BOURLA: I think Seagen is the anchor platform. When we announced the acquisition of Seagen back in '23 early, we actually made a very big bet in two things-- one, the ADC technology, and secondly, a company that we felt can excel in this technology.

Since then, I feel very good for both, actually way better than when we announced. The ADC technology has become the hottest thing in M&A right now. Every company is trying to find an ADC. But, you know, what is available is one product here, a product there. With Seagen, we were able to get the whole platform of four marketed products that are having a very strong lifecycle plan, 13 assets that were in different stages of the pipeline, and the know-how and technology. But it was positioned in the company as the best company of ADC. So I feel that there is an overall consensus in the market that the bet on the technology was the right one.

Now coming to the company, I feel even better because since we announced the acquisition, Seagen was able to release data that were transformational in terms of efficacy that they were able to demonstrate in very difficult-to-treat cancers like bladder cancers. So both company and the technologies where I think we are placing our bets, and I think that will be a significant anchor for us.

JULIE HYMAN: Now in addition to the enthusiasm over ADCs, as you know, the market has been sort of obsessed with the new weight-loss franchises that are out there. Now, you have an experimental drug on that front, but I do wonder what you make of the hype, some would say, the obsession, some would say, over these new weight-loss drugs. Do you think that that is warranted?

ALBERT BOURLA: Look, I can't comment if the stock appreciation that is following, let's say, this obsession, as you called it. It's having as a result. But I think that obesity, it is a major, major problem for the health of humans. I think that the GLP-1s have been proven to be very, very good medicines, and I think it's just the beginning of an era that new antiobesity medicines will come.

So I'm very optimistic about the science, and we are not having only one. We have three obesity assets right now in the clinic. And, of course, we are working on many other which are not in the clinic yet.

JULIE HYMAN: When we were in Davos, I know you spoke to "Barron's," and you talked about investing your pension back into Pfizer's stock as another sort of sign of optimism here. Did you want that to be partially sort of a signal to investors about your confidence in the company's future?

ALBERT BOURLA: First of all, it is a signal that I have a high confidence, and I put my money where my mouth is. So I'm all in. So it was a significant investment for my financial situation, and I put it all in Pfizer because I believe it is one of the best investments that anyone can do right now. So then the investors, of course, they should make their own calls. But myself, my entire pension went in December into Pfizer stock.

JULIE HYMAN: Albert, finally I want to ask you about the bigger backdrop in the world right now because as we know, as you were-- as Pfizer was developing the COVID vaccine, you forged a lot of strong relationships with world leaders. As you talk to them now, as you have different conversations, there are obviously a lot of different challenges and conflicts facing the world now. We have Russia-Ukraine. We have Israel, which is now expanding into the Red Sea. We have ongoing US-China tensions. What do you think is most acute, biggest risk there, and how are you thinking about how to manage that?

ALBERT BOURLA: There is no doubt that we are living turbulent times, and the geopolitical tensions are right now at an unusual peak. But I think that world leaders, to the degree that I speak to them, they express from one hand concern about that, but also they express optimism that the world will overcome those challenges and a better future is coming.

I discuss a lot science issues with a lot of these leaders, and I know that they are very optimistic about what I expect to be a scientific renaissance. I think that, going forward, you are going to see, in the life sciences particularly, significant advancements, not only in biology, but also in technology, AI being one of them. That will allow us to deliver meaningful solutions to patients for diseases that they didn't have a solution before. Oncology, it is clearly one of our very big bets, but the same will happen in many other areas.

JULIE HYMAN: Albert, I also-- you talking about the promise of oncology and of science also makes me think about some recent findings that show that the rate of cancer is growing, and in particular, among younger people or younger than it used to be. What do we know scientifically about why that's happening, and how is that going to inform how we treat and even eventually hopefully prevent these cancers?

ALBERT BOURLA: I'm not sure I have all the answers to that, but there is an element that, first of all, people are living longer, and you know cancer is clearly related to the age. So as people are living longer, you have higher incidence of cancers. But as you said also, there are reports and statistics that are demonstrating that we have now more cancer in younger people.

I think it's more because we have diagnostics, better diagnostic tools, and then more cancers are diagnosed around the world that were not diagnosed before. I don't know if there are other conditions that are contributing to the growth of patients with cancer other than that. But what I know, it is that right now among all therapeutic areas, cancer is the one that I am mostly most optimistic that science will deliver meaningful solutions. So I think it's good news for patients.

JULIE HYMAN: Well, let's hope that you are correct on that front. Albert Bourla, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time today.

ALBERT BOURLA: I thank you very much.

JULIE HYMAN: Thanks.